Rethinking How We Discover Wine w/ Ashwin Muthiah (Part 2)

Ep 147

Most wine drinkers assume the wines they see are the only wines that exist, but that couldn’t be further from the truth.

In part two of my conversation with Unpinned Wine Club founder, Ashwin Muthiah, he offers insight into how wine discovery actually works, from the systems that favor familiarity to the biases that keep lesser known grapes out of view.

He shares how his own lived experience in wine regions across Europe shaped a different approach to curation, one rooted in storytelling, balance, and drinkability. He uses this unique approach in selecting wines for his monthly club shipment.

We also dive into what natural wine really means, why it gained a reputation for being “funky,” and how Ashwin thinks about balancing experimentation with drinkability. Along the way, he highlights rare and underrepresented grapes from places like Greece, Hungary, and Georgia, and explains why pronunciation, pricing, and perception all play a role in what we choose to drink.

If you’ve ever felt boxed into the same familiar wines, this episode offers a clearer look at why that happens and what’s really shaping wine discovery.

Skip the waitlist to join the UnPINNED Wine Club with this exclusive link just for pod listeners - https://unpinnedwineclub.com/pages/access-upwcqrz

Thank you to our exclusive sponsor, Last Bottle, for sponsoring this episode. Go to www.lastbottlewines.com and use code CORKANDFIZZ for 10% off your order! (And be sure to sign up for their mailing list so you never miss a bottle!)

Connect with Ashwin

Website - https://unpinnedwineclub.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/unpinnedwine/ 

Grapes mentioned by Ashwin

• Xinomavro (Greece)
• Juhfark, Furmint (Hungary)
• Kisi (Georgia)

Episode Highlights:

• Wine discovery is shaped by access, not just taste
• How wine club themes are curated
• Forgotten and underrepresented grape varieties
• Natural wine vs flawed wine
• Why pronunciation affects buying decisions
• How comparison tastings lower the risk of trying new wines
• Examples of grapes from Greece, Hungary, and Georgia
  
  
  

Transcript

0:00

If you love wine but hate overpaying, listen up. Today's sponsor, Last Bottle Wines, drops one deeply discounted sommelier-picked wine every single day. I'll tell you why I'm obsessed later in the episode, but for now, head to lastbottlewines.com and use code CORKANDFIZZ for 10% off. Interested in learning about wine but not sure where to start? You're in the right place. Welcome to the Cork and Fizz Guide to Wine Podcast. I'm your host, Hailey Bohlman, and I'm so glad you're here. I'm a wine enthusiast turned wine educator and founder of the Seattle-based wine tasting business Cork and Fizz. It is my goal to build your confidence in wine by making it approachable and lots of fun. You can expect to learn everything from how to describe your favorite wine to what to pair with dinner tonight and so much more. Whether you're casual wine sipper or a total cork dork like myself, this podcast is for you. So grab yourself a glass and let's dive in. Hello and welcome back to the Cork and Fizz Guide to Wine podcast. Today you'll be listening to part 2 of my interview with Ashwin. If you haven't heard part 1, I highly recommend pausing this episode and going to listen to episode 146 first., you can always come back to this one. As a reminder, Ashwin is the founder of Unpinned Wine Club, a wine subscription built around discovery, storytelling, and breaking the rigid rules of the wine industry. You're not going to find a boring old Chardonnay in this box. Each month he curates 6, or there's an option to do a mini with just 3 wines, but he curates 6 underrepresented wines from around the world, grapes and regions often overlooked by mainstream distribution. Some shipments that he's had in the past include themes like Forgotten Grapes. This featured Hungary's volcanic Jafarq and Portugal's Rare Azal. He's also done the theme Georgia versus the World, which compared ancient Qvevri wines from Georgia to their global counterparts. His journey in wine has been shaped by time living in Georgia, Italy, Hungary, and Serbia, where he immersed himself in the local traditions and learned directly from the winemakers. This makes his experience very unique and special, and I think his take on wine is something we all need to hear. So without further ado, let's get into the interview. Thinking about your, your wine club, because one of the hardest things I find for a lot of folks, I mean, I grew up in a small town in Wisconsin. There is no, I mean, there is one actually now that's doing a little bit better that are bringing in some good wines. It's a little coffee shop that also has wine. So I'm like, hey, keep doing that. But there weren't when, you know, when I was growing up. And so your options were. Walmart, uh, you could go to the largest big city and they had Total Wine, or we had a liquor store, you know, and they, they also had the, the, the bottles, you know? So it's like if you come from one of those areas where you don't have access to a small wine shop, it feels like wine clubs like yours are one of those ways to get this wine and to be able to try that. So do you wanna talk a little bit about how your wine club works and then tell us a little bit about how you choose the wines that go in your club? Absolutely. Yeah. This was one of the most surprising parts about launching this wine club was, is that we have so many customers from smaller towns in, in like places of the country that I've never been to. And a lot of them I'd never heard of. And I was really surprised at first because I figured, oh, you know, these like niche wines from underrepresented varieties from countries that most people haven't heard of. It sounds more like an urban thing. It sounds like a New York. It sounds like a DC. It sounds like a Chicago. And what it's been is more like Little Rock and Emporia and Canton, just like places that I'm like, wow, this is surprising. And I think you hit the nail on the head, Haley, where it's, these are the places in the country where you literally cannot get these types of, like, there's no way to get it other than online. And so I think our wine club is filling a really cool need for folks that have a desire to drink the other 10,000 grapes that are curious about what the world has to offer in terms of taste that want to support the diversity of our planet. And now they have a way to do that. And it's really awesome and exciting to see. The second part of your question, how do I choose the wines? That's probably my favorite part of my job. Honestly, it's so much fun because this is where you get to be a little bit artist, a little bit mad scientist, and a little bit, you know, kind of like just business person where I think the primary thing for me is like building around a theme. So every month we'll have a theme and all the wines connect to that theme. So one of the months we had forgotten grapes. So these are wines made from grapes that account for less than like 0.1% of the world's vineyard plantings. So extremely rare. We had grapes like Dufarque and Perricone, and you know, so everything was around that theme. And then we had a Georgia versus the world theme where we had wines from Georgia, which is the birthplace of wine, and they were paired up with wines from a more traditionally classic winemaking region so that you could have a little bit of like a baseline for comparison. Because if you've never tried Georgian wine before, it can be a little bit jarring just to dive headfirst into that. So like, hey, let's try and make this a bit more approachable. We have like right now we're shipping, or at the time of recording, we're shipping Women Winemakers. So these are These are incredible, like trailblazing women making wine. And I kind of alluded to this earlier, but the wine industry is very male dominated. And so this is our little way of trying to like make some change on that front. But we'll start with a theme and then I start tasting wines that feel like they could fit that theme. And then I pick the best ones so long as we're still representing some diversity, meaning I don't want to ship 6 red wines, even if they're all awesome. I don't want to ship them all at once because it's like, oh, I want I want wines for all different occasions in, in each of the shipments, even across the themes. So that's kind of how the process works on my side. How do you, this is kind of just a curiosity question for me. How do you get these wines to taste? Are you primarily traveling? Are they making it to you? And then like, like you said with like, oh, if I tried 6 reds and they were all great, but I had to pick some, do some of those go in your back pocket or is it like they're gone because they're such small shipments? Like, How do you get all these wines to try and put in the box? All the above. It's all the above. Like I travel quite a bit, like most of my travels revolve around Europe. And the nice thing about being in Europe is that the countries are all like quite close together. It's kind of like being on the East Coast in the US. You just like hop on an hour and a half flight, except instead of being in a different state, you're just in a different country. So I do a lot of tasting with producers. I've been tasting wines for 10 years, so I have tons of producers that I just I know and love, and then I'm working to figure out how can I get my hands on their wine at wholesale. I'll have folks that will want to like send wine our way. We try to avoid that just because then like we don't want to be biased on what we're choosing. And so I'd happily pay for the, I want to pay for the wine and then taste it. And if it works, we'll use it. And if it doesn't, I don't want to feel bad about being like, no, this doesn't work for us. And then yeah, I'm drinking wine all the time. So I'm drinking wine at dinner. I'm drinking wine at wine bars. When I find one that moves me, I'm like, oh, let me like make a note and like, let's put it in our back pocket. And yeah, everything I taste, if I like it, it definitely goes kind of into the back pocket. That way I can kind of like, as I'm constructing these themes, sometimes I'll have 2 or 3 wines already in mind. I'm like, hey, this Xenomavro would work. And this like, oh, maybe we'll actually build a Greece theme. Because like the wines that are coming to my mind right now are all Greek. And then we'll kind of like build around that way. So yeah, a little bit of everything that you said is how I end up tasting. Okay. And then for folks that are listening that have heard you talk about, you know, they're, you're saying a lot of grapes they've never heard of. You've also mentioned that a lot of these are naturally made. You might call them natural wines, but to a lot of folks that means funky wines. Are most of the wines natural wines that you include in the box? Are they funky wines? Would an average wine drinker enjoy these wines? That's such a great question. I think an average wine drinker would love these wines, and that's actually one of the most challenging parts of, of this job. Is how can we find wines that are off the beaten path but still taste really good, right? Because I think there is, there's a beauty in the natural wine movement that there's just less stuff in it. But then I think there was a lot of, I don't want to say cutting corners, but like it takes a while for a new trend. And in this case, it's a new old trend, but this new old trend, it takes a while for it to get refined. And so we definitely had this like swing too far into like the natty direction where it's like a lot of these wines have flaws that like the volatile acidity is just like, it's way too high. Or, you know, the Brett is just like, it's too much. It's like these wines are flawed, but we're put 'em under the label natural. And so now it like flies. And I think that turned like some portion of the people off from natural wine. They're like, oh, this is just like, to these aren't good. I don't really like how they taste, so I don't want to drink them. Whereas I think there's some phenomenal natural winemakers that are out there. It requires more care, more attention, requires more skill and patience, but there are folks out there doing it that are amazing at it and have, you know, kind of like almost like patentable techniques in my mind. They're obviously, they don't patent it. They just like do a really good job kind of with these tricks that they've learned. And so the wines are like fairly classic drinking. In every box, I'll include one or two that push the boundary just because, you know, I think it's important for folks to understand like what the full spectrum looks like. But on average, we try and make sure the wines are like fun to like, good. They're like good quality wines. Like I would open it with a good meal, not just like, oh, I could drink this wine, like eat Doritos. Yeah. But I mean, you can also like have a steak and it would work. So yeah, like you're choosing wines that are good tasting wines and then they just happen to also be natural wines. It's like, you're not, Selecting it purely because it's a natural wine. Exactly. Exactly. I like it. Okay. Well, we've talked a lot about rare underrepresented grapes, so I feel like this is gonna be like the question that's like, I'm making you pick your favorite kids, but it's more like, because I'm gonna ask you to highlight, can you share maybe 3 or 4 grapes or specific wines that I just, people haven't heard of and it would be fun to, to learn about them? Yeah. So I'll double-click on a few that I've already mentioned. I mentioned them because I love them. So Tino Mavro is a red grape variety from Greece. It's like often you'll find it on the mainland. There's a region called Naoussa. And I mean, my personal cellar is full of Tino Mavro because it drinks a lot like Nebbiolo, a little bit wilder., but lots of acid, firm tannins, ageability, dried fruit, some like, you know, kind of earthiness, gaminess, and just like a quarter of the price, like just such a good value. You can drink $200 wine for like $30, which is actually what triggered me on this journey in general was I was not, you know, I was like, I want amazing wine, but I don't wanna spend $100 a bottle. And then this is right here is where it led me. So Tsinomavro is one. Well, and I will say before you go to the second one, for folks who are listening, Tsinomavro, I, I'm familiar with this grape. It doesn't look like when you're reading it, it does not look like what we are saying. It starts with an X, which is probably why a lot of people avoid it. They're like, how the heck am I supposed to say it? I'll put the spelling in the show notes for anybody who wants to look up this wine. Later, but I've always learned how to say it is like Casino Mavro. Casino Mavro. You kind of say it all together, but it does start with an X, so it's like, okay, I'm not even going to try that one because I don't know how to say it. So we'll, we'll put all of them in the show notes as well. Awesome. Yeah. Thanks, Haley. And I think you're hitting on an important point, which is like, I had written about this. There's 6 or 7 reasons why these wines, like people don't drink them. The fact that you can't pronounce it is one of the highest ones. Yeah. It's like, you're not gonna order a wine you can't pronounce. You're already afraid of being judged for not knowing enough about wine. The last thing you're gonna do is like look at a grape called Mitzvane and order it and be like, I'll take the Cab. That's easy. I could say that. Right, right. I, I know that one. Yeah. So Tino Aro is one. Another, there are two kind of like Austro-Hungarian varieties that I really love. Juvarc is one. Furmint is the other. Mm-hmm. Furmint is much more widely available and relative to Euphrat, it's still like, if you go into a grocery store, you're not gonna find it. But both are like high acid, minerally, often grown in volcanic soils, like saline type of wines. The Euphrat is a little bit wilder, funkier, a little bit more like often kind of like honeyed or like mead type of thing. It's like, it's richer, it'll be more golden. So those are two that I love. I drink a lot of those from, from Hungary, from Austria, Jufark mostly from Hungary only, Budimints from Austria. You can find it in Germany, in Serbia a bit. So those two I really quite like. And then we did one from Greece. We did some from Austria, Hungary. Oh, let's do Georgia. There is a lovely white variety called Kisi. K-I-S-I. Okay. K-I-S-I. And it makes like, it's a white grape. They make amber wine mostly. So amber wine is just you ferment the whole fruit. So white wine that we, that as we know it, you like press the grape, use the juice and you throw away the skins, which kind of, you know, that left me also scratching my head. I'm like, well, why would you like in red wine, you use the whole fruit. Like why are you throwing away like this perfectly good part of the fruit that tends to also have a lot of the kind of like health-supporting elements in wine, like a lot of the antioxidants and, and, and whatnot. So anyway, Kisi often made as an amber wine. So you use a whole fruit and you get this really delicate floral, you know, amber-colored wine and, and you'll, you'll smell like often like honeysuckle and jasmine along with like, you know, there's, you'll get the fruits, you'll get apricot and, and some green apple, but it's the floral notes in Kisi that just it just makes me kind of go like this. Like it's just so fun to drink. And it's, it's like the, it's the notes that, you know, they're tertiaries, they're hard to preserve in a wine. And yeah, so summary, it's Ju Cynomavro, Fark, Furmint, and Kisi are the four that I came up with. I love it. Very fun. Okay. Now, and I think we've kind of hit on this as well, but do you have any specific advice for listeners that like, are like, okay, yay, these wines sound fun and they're good to try, but I'm kind of afraid that what if I don't like it? You know, I buy a whole bottle and I don't like it, you know, so I stick with what I know. I'm afraid to like go out there. What is your advice for kind of starting to branch out and be able to go beyond that, you know, what they are familiar with? Who doesn't want incredible wine for a steal? Today's podcast is brought to you by Last Bottle Wines, a Napa Valley-based online wine shop with a super fun twist. Some of the best bottles I've ever opened, aka the ones my friends still talk about to this day, came from Last Bottle. And I love when they say, this is incredible, and I get to reply, yep, and it's usually an $80 wine. I only paid $25. At Last Bottle Wines, they offer just one hand-picked wine per day until it sells out. New day, new wine. It's like a fun little daily surprise. And the deals wild. We're talking 30 to 80% off retail, so you can try amazing bottles without the scary price tag. Their team tastes hundreds of wines every week, so you know what you see is worth grabbing. There's no subscription, no minimums, and free ground shipping when you buy 6 or more bottles. Use code CORKANDFIZZ for 10% off and go see today's wine at lastbottlewines.com. I think there's two things that come to mind. One is a little bit of a change in mindset that it's like trying a new restaurant. Sometimes it's going to be awesome and sometimes it's just not, but most of us are okay, like going to spend the $50 or the $80 or whatever it is to like try out a new restaurant. Like you get an appetizer, a glass of wine, you know, main, a dessert, like you're going to spend it and it's going to be good or it's bad. And it's like similar with wine. It's like, a little bit of openness to, hey, I'm exploring here and some are going to rock and some, some are going to be like, man, this wasn't for me. So that's just like a mindset shift. I think a really practical thing is to taste with friends. So have a group of 4 people, 5 people, 8 people, open 4 or 5 different bottles, and there will definitely be ones that you like and there'll be some that you like less, but because you're in a group, everyone will probably have something that they like and something that they don't. Some maybe you'll all agree, maybe you won't, but that's a really great way to be able to taste a bunch of different wines without kind of feeling like, oh, definitively I'm going to have either just a good experience or bad experience. So very much recommend that. Yeah, definitely. And it averages out. That's, that's exactly how I started learning about wine and how I got into it was that I wanted to try lots of wines, didn't want to have to buy them all myself. And so, you know, started a wine club with friends, which like it is so easy to do. There are very few people who say no to like, hey, do you want to come over and like drink wine together? Like, that usually brings in a lot of people, right? And it's like, all you have to do for your entry in is like bring a bottle. So it's a great way, great way to like connect with friends, plus getting to try all these wines. And like you said, it kind of averages out because everyone has different tastes, right? It's not necessarily that there's going to be a bad wine. There might be, but it's more like you just have different tastes. And so some people, you know, will drink more of this versus more of that. So you get to try, try a lot of things. I think that's great advice. All right. Now, what is new and exciting for you coming in the future? Where do you see yourself and Unpinned, you know, thinking 5, 10 years down the road? Whoa, that's fun. I, you know, we just, the wine club just launched 3 months ago and when you're, when something is new, you're, you're just so in it that you don't pull yourself out to think like, where is this going to be in 5 years? It's not something you do that often. I think one of the things I love most that I haven't gotten to do as much of recently is tasting new wines with new people. So through our wine club, I'm tasting a ton of new wine. I'm, you know, like I handwrite the tasting notes. I like provide all the food pairings that I'd recommend and like a lot of context. And I send the, you know, we send these wines out, but I don't get to often taste with the people that I'm sending the wines to. And I'm hoping that as we get bigger, we start to be able to do that more. So we have like enough concentration of people in a certain area where it's like, hey, we're just going to do a live tasting and like, let's all, let's all like open, open these bottles together and like have this shared experience around these wines. I think that's something that I miss and that I'm really looking forward to being able to do, you know, as I think like longer term as a business grows. I think the other dream that I would really love to realize in the next 5 years is to open a wine bar. Yeah. Oh. I don't know where yet. And I've been told by almost everyone that, you know, that's a great way to lose your money. I have heard wine bars are even harder than restaurants, but I'm with you on that. I'm like, it just sounds so like, that's what I would want. That sounds so fun. And like the way to, that's how you introduce people to new wines. Exactly. Exactly. And I think it's hard to do well, but if you do it well, I think it can outperform. So that's something that I'd love to do, that it becomes like a community space where we're constantly tasting new wines. And I've got like some visions for like rotating food menu and pair it with some good music and you just like kind of like take Unpinned, the experience, like the Unpinned Wine Club, it's like constantly evolving. I would love for a place to have that feel. So those are two like kind of like long-term horizon projects. Yeah. And I'm sure you've thought about it, but I'm just gonna put it out there cuz it's what's going on in my mind of what would be fun when you're like, I wanna taste with people. And I'm like, you're talking about all this travel you do and all these producers, you know, an unpinned like wine retreat, like sounds amazing of just bringing people to you, right? Like you can, you could go to them, but bringing people to you and with all the knowledge you have of all the different areas and, and it being somewhere other than I feel like a lot of wine retreats and I very much would love those too, of like in Italy or in France, but like bringing people out to show them Georgia and the wine producers and giving that opportunity. You know, if that ever comes up in your plans, I know that would be something I would keep an eye out for. Yeah, no, that's such a great— that's such a great point. I've definitely thought about it. I've even had people reach out to me about it. It's just like, you know, it's a lot of work. I'm like, hey, I've got this one thing that I'm trying to get rolling. And then once it's rolling, then I think that would— I totally agree. It would be so fun. Yeah. Yeah. No, I just had to throw it out there. I'm like, just in case. I'm sure it's come up in your. Mind, but no, I'm glad you did. Okay. So we are down to the last questions. This is what I call my speed round. You don't necessarily have to like answer super fast. The idea is just don't think about it too much because then the questions could be kind of, you could think about them forever. So it's more like, what's the first thing that pops into your mind is how they're going to go. So for example, the first question. What is your favorite wine at the moment? At the moment, there's this Cigliagiolo that I had recently, and actually we just were shipping this month. It, it's like 90% Cigliagiolo and then 10% Sangiovese. And I love it because like, so I live in Florence, Sangiovese is everywhere. It's like, you know, it's kind of the king and it's just like, it just like flips on its head. It's like Sangiovese is just like riding in the back seat and you've got this really like bright, like cherry red wine that, that's delicious. Yeah. Cool. I like it. Okay. How about what's your go-to bottle of wine to like bring to a dinner party or to share with friends? Oh shit. It's like different every time. That's your answer too. You're like, whatever is different and new. Yeah, it's that. It's like, it's never the same. It's never the same. Yeah. I mean, like I've got a ton of Péketepincé wine from Somló in Hungary. So he— that's often my go-to actually, now that I think about it, because it's he makes these white wines that are like age-worthy, like 15 years in age and they're delicious. And so I have like, I bought a ton of it and I'm like, this is just more than I could ever drink. Like I've got 400 bottles of wine. I'm just staring over there. I'm like, that thing just keeps growing. There's just like, it just keeps growing. So that actually, that's my answer. Yeah. Okay. I like it. All right. And now I feel like this is also going to be a hard question. What is your favorite wine region that you've ever visited? What's coming to mind to me right now is either Imereti in Georgia. Okay. Which is, they make these leaner wines. So they're like more minerally, less alcoholic, like vibrant, can be skin contact or not, mostly whites that I really love because it's like some of the freshest air you'll breathe is how I felt while I was out there. Like the sky's just really blue and the greens are really green and they make the wine in, in the clay underground. It's like in these pots. It's beautiful and the food is delicious. So it's either there or Sicily are probably the two that are coming to mind right now. Like I just, I could just eat my weight in arancini and drink Frappato. Like that just sounds like a great Sunday. Oh, I love it. Okay. Now on the flip side of that, how about a wine region you'd like to visit that you haven't been to before? Oh, let's see. Where have I really been wanting to go? You know, I've spent very little time in Germany and like they're, they're kind of like austere, steely, very direct white wines. Like sometimes kind of like Alpine feeling white wines there. It's a style of wine that I really like drinking. I just don't drink it often and I haven't really spent much time in Germany. So yeah, maybe Mosel to start just 'cause like, I do think you kind of need to like understand like what makes the country famous before you go like branching off and tasting all the other stuff a little bit. So yeah. Yeah. Good answer. Okay. Similar to our first question, what is your favorite wine and food pairing at the moment? We have a really close friend. She's basically a sister. Her name is Allie. She makes a wine called Podere Cappaccia. It's a Sangiovese made like, I don't know, like 40 minutes from here. So we, that's like our, we call it our house wine cuz she sells it to us at a discount cuz she lives walking distance from us. So it's like whenever she comes over, she like brings a case with her cuz we're always running out. So it would be, it's probably that wine with, I mean, I think we have some of the best like steak in the world where we're sitting. So it's, it's her wine and, and like, like the filetto from the Bistecca Fiorentina. Yeah. Just like simple classic, but just, I don't know that you can find, like, I'd be hard pressed to find a red wine that I like more than Allie's red wine. And I'd be hard pressed to find like meat better than what our butcher Macherey Abascalotzi, like, I don't think you could find anything better than either of those things. And they pair together so beautifully. So yeah. Oh, sounds delicious. All right. I think we know the answer. I think everyone listening knows the answer to this question, but I'm curious. If you were given $1,000 to spend on wine, you had to spend it on wine. It was wine for you. What wine would you buy? Whoa. And I don't mean like, it doesn't have to be super specific. It's kind of one of those of just like, what would, what would be kind of your like mindset going into it? How would you, how would you go into spending that money? Yeah, let's see. I mean, it would be like, let me go buy wines from these small producers who I've been following but haven't really gotten to taste their wines yet. Yeah. Because there's so many of them and a lot of them will message us on Instagram and stuff and we try to respond as much as we can. And it's like, it's just, there are a lot of winemakers out there and I want to, like, I would love to taste the ones that I'd never heard of. So I think I'd like, Ask friends, be like, hey, what's a winemaker that no one else knows? And just like, I want 6 of their wines. Let the winemaker choose. Like, as long as it's not extravagantly expensive, like call it like $30 a bottle or something,$35 a bottle. Like, just gimme their Venmo or their eBan or whatever and just tell 'em to send me the wine. I'll just send 'em money. I think that's how I'd do it. Yes, that tracks. I was like, it's gotta be, it's definitely gonna be, all of 'em are gonna be different. They're all gonna be ones you've never tried before. That would, that would be how I would imagine you'd fill your, your box of Your box of wine. Yeah. All right. We're gonna end on the, I guess maybe I shouldn't end on this one, but it is always fun to ask. What is one wine myth that like bugs you the most? Ooh. Probably the, like the legs in a wine glass indicate anything about its quality. It's just like, I don't even know how we got there. I'm like, all it tells you is how viscous the wine is. Like it's just a science-y thing. Yeah, it's just like, you know, like water doesn't leave a lot of legs and maple syrup does. It just tells you how thick the liquid inside is. But the thickness doesn't tell you if it's good or bad quality. Like, like Riesling, like you can spend $300 on a bottle of Riesling and it's going to have no legs and you could spend like $4 on like a, like a bullshit Napa Valley 16% red wine. It's going to have a ton of legs and it's like, it is just, it's so irrelevant. So yeah, that's probably the biggest one. Great answer. I love it. All right. Well, that is everything I have. Thank you so much for, for joining me and we'll let folks know. I, I talk a lot about the, the wine club and encourage folks to join Unpinned Wine Club to try all these wines that everyone's talking about. And that is exactly how you can do it. And you offer both a 6-wine box and also a 3-wine box, right? At this time. Yep, exactly. Exactly. Perfect. Both options. We'll put all the links in the show notes, uh, so everyone can go check it out. But thank you so much for joining me for the interview. Awesome. It was my pleasure, Haley. It was so awesome to meet you. Thanks for having me and can't wait to, can't wait to clink glasses at some point. Yes, exactly. It'll happen someday. All right. Cheers. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Cork and Fizz Guide to Wine podcast. You can learn more about the Unpinned Wine Club by going to unpinnedwineclub.com. And if you want to join now and there happens to be a waitlist, you can skip that waitlist by clicking the exclusive link that is in the show notes. If you have any trouble finding that, please let me know. I'm happy to help you out. Just reach out on Instagram or email. You will get 6 underrepresented wines from around the world paired with storytelling, tasting notes, and food pairings. All for $227 a month. There's also the option to purchase the box as a one-time purchase or give it as a gift. You can also get the mini version, which is just 3 bottles for $137 a month. Be sure to follow Shwin on Instagram to learn directly from him all about wine and his journey to discovering the wines he puts in his box. You can find him@unpinnedwine on Instagram. If you love this episode as much as I did, I I would so love it if you could take a quick second, rate it, leave a review, leave a comment. Tell me what you thought was interesting. What was your favorite question? What's a question I should have asked if I missed it? And I will reach out to Eshwin. I'm sure he'll answer it for us. If you know a wine lover in your life that would enjoy this episode, please share it with them. And if you'd like to show additional support for the show, you can become a paid subscriber. Click the link in the show notes and become a monthly supporter for $10 or or less a month. This is not required. All of these episodes are available to you free, including my entire backlog. But if you wanted to show some more support, you can do that. You'll get a shout out in the next episode I record. Plus, if you choose the $10 per month option, you'll get to choose a topic for a future episode. In next week's episode, we will be continuing my little mini series. We'll be debunking the myth about screw cap wines and why they might actually be more reliable than corks. I know, scandalous, right? Thanks again for listening. And if you want to learn more about wine, come follow me at Cork and Fizz on Instagram. Cheers.