Why German Wine Goes Beyond Sweet Riesling w/ Lisa Tupetz (Part 1)

Ep 122

What if everything you thought about German wine was only half the story?

Today I am joined by Lisa Tupetz who is sharing her journey to becoming a winemaker and importer who turned a chance trip to New Zealand into a lifelong passion for wine. From vineyard work to building her own import company, she shares how curiosity, setbacks, and perseverance shaped her career.

We dive into what it really takes to bring wine from Germany to your glass in the U.S.- from regulations and shipping hurdles to tariffs and labeling laws. You’ll also learn why not all German wines are sweet Rieslings and how the country produces everything from world-class Pinot Noir to sparkling wines made in the traditional Champagne method.

Our conversation also dives into sustainability, the truth behind “organic” and “natural” wine labels, and why asking the right questions about what’s in your glass matters.

Lisa Tupetz is a winemaker, distributor, and the founder of Tupetz Wine Connection. Raised in Germany and educated in Enology and Viticulture at the Geisenheim University, Lisa moved to San Luis Obispo, CA in 2018 to make wine. After suffering a work injury in 2020 which made her take a break from winemaking, Lisa craved the taste of home. At the same time, the future of wine distribution within Germany, which relies on outdoor festivals and big social gatherings, was quite uncertain due to Covid. Through mutual necessity, years of friendship, and dedication, TWC was born.

You won’t want to miss this behind-the-scenes journey of German wine, from family vineyards to your table, and why it’s more complex (and fascinating) than you may think.

And if you are ready to try some wines from Tupetz Wine Collection you can do so here and save 15% with the code CORKFIZZ15.

Thank you to Wine.com for sponsoring this episode. Go to Wine.com/corkfizz and use code CORKFIZZ for FREE shipping on your order over $150. (Limit one per customer.)

Connect with Lisa

Website - www.tupetzwine.com 

Instagram - @tupetzwine

Episode Highlights:

• How a trip to New Zealand led to an unexpected career in wine
• What it’s like to start a German wine import company in California
• The complex process of importing wine to the U.S.
• Why German wine is far more than just sweet Riesling
• Sustainability, organic certifications, and natural wine explained
• The importance of relationships with winemakers and their families

Don't Forget to Download my Free Wine Tasting Guide! - https://www.corkandfizz.com/free-wine-tasting-guide

Connect with me:
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Email - hailey@corkandfizz.com

Transcript

0:09

Interested in learning about wine but not sure where to start? You're in the right place. Welcome to the Cork and Fizz Guide to Wine Podcast. I'm your host, Hayley Bowlman and I'm so glad you're here. I'm a wine enthusiast turned wine educator and founder of the Seattle based wine tasting business Corporate Cork and Fizz. It is my goal to build your confidence in wine by making it approachable and lots of fun. You can expect to learn everything from how to describe your favorite wine to what to pair with dinner tonight and so much more. Whether you're a casual wine sipper or a total cork dork like myself, this podcast is for you. So grab yourself a glass and let's dive in foreign hello and welcome back to the Cork and Fizz Guide to Wine Podcast. I am so excited to introduce you to Lisa Tupac. Lisa is a winemaker, distributor and the founder of Toupatz Wine Collection, a German wine import company with the goal not only to sell German wine to those of us here in the US but also connecting people with family run German estates through authentic low intervention wine. Lisa was raised in Germany and educated in enology and viticulture at university there. I'm not even going to bother saying the name of it because it's German. She moved to San Luis Obispo, California in 2018 to make wine, but after suffering a work injury in 2020, she took a break from winemaking and she was craving a taste of home. At the same time, the future of wine distribution within Germany, which relies on outdoor festivals and big social gatherings, was quite uncertain due to Covid. So through this mutual necessity, years of friendship and dedication, Toupat's wine connection was born. I actually invited Lisa to join the cork crew for a virtual tasting and guided tasting of her German wine. And she brought in a German winemaker as well. So we had this really fun conversation and I got to try some really great wines that she brings in. We had such a fun time and she was so knowledgeable on all things German wine that I knew I had to have her on the podcast. So in this episode you'll hear part one of the interview. We're going to talk about how Lisa's love for wine started, actually with a trip to New Zealand simply to learn English. Why it's important to ask questions about the wine you're drinking and not just look for words natural or organic on the label. We'll learn there is far more to German wine than just sweet Riesling and so much more so without further ado, let's get into the interview. Well, let's jump in. So I always do a little intro beforehand, but I also think it's good to give you a chance to introduce yourself. So do you just want to share who you are and what you do? Sure. So my name is Visa Tupet, and I live in California, even though I'm now in Germany and I import wines from Germany. I moved to California in 2018 and, yeah, started a couple of years ago with my import business. So that's what I do. Currently importing some fun German wines and sell them across the United States. I love it. Okay. One of the, like, biggest questions I always like to ask people on here because I find that people get into wine in different ways. So I'm always curious, how did you fall in love with wine? Okay, well, that's actually was my plan at all. Like, I was never really into wine when I was, you know, growing up in Germany. I never visited a winery until I was in New Zealand. So I finished school in Germany, and then I wanted to learn English and I wanted to study business. So it was like my main idea, either business or chemistry. So this was like my two topics of school that I was, like, you know, interested in and like, whatever wanted to focus more on. And then I wanted to go to a business school which has what I've been taught in English. So I was like, let's go somewhere, you know, where they speak English. My mom's best friend was living in New Zealand at a point she moved out there in the, I think, 80s or something. And so I went to New Zealand after school, planning on staying for three months, just, you know, pick up some English, go back to Germany, study business, and then, you know, go from there. And so I went to New Zealand right after school, and I was just working at my mom's best friend's wine bar and restaurant. And I mean, the first few weeks I was pretty much just like going to the wine bar when she had to go to work. And I was hanging out with the sommelier, and he would pull me some off dry wines and then some drier wines. And then he was just like, every day he's like, so what do you remember from last night? Like, what do you, you know, how was the one like, what did we drink? And, like, kept questioning me all the time and kind of pushing me into, like, you should go to supermarket tomorrow, and then you should smell all the vegetables and all the fruits. Like, you know, can't remember what you smell. And Then you come back here, and then we will taste Riesling and Sauvignon Blanc. So he was kind of like, making sure that I was able to associate certain smell with a certain wine and certain grape varieties and stuff. And I was like, this is pretty cool. And so I kind of like, got, you know, a really intense training without even, like, you know, asking for it. But it's, like, really interesting. I was like, this is fun. I was like, a great song on YouTube. He's actually from France. We're still in touch. He lives in Australia right now. And. Yeah, so I kind of got into, like, you know, the full wine thing. And then one night, Lisa was like, well, what do you want to. My mom's friend, her name is Lisa, too. I'm named after her. And then she was like, so, what do you want to drink? You know, choose any of the wines from our buy the glass list. And they had a huge body glass list, I think over 70 wines, like, really cool wine program. And I said, like, I would like to have this, you know, fancy Sauvignon Blanc from block points, like, barrel aged, like, single vignette section wine. And I was like, I would like this one. And then she's like, oh, that's the most expensive one that we have by the glass. And I was like, oh, I'm so sorry. And she's like, no, no, no, you're good. It's actually great. Love that. That means, you know, you listened the past few weeks, you were able to, you know, you have a good taste. And I was like, I guess one day I'll regret it because it'll be expensive. But, yeah, so we had like, yeah, that's kind of like how I got into like, the whole, like, wine scene a little bit more. And because it was a really incredible wine bar and restaurant, I got into the wine and food pairing thing as well. And then Lisa and I went on a road trip and we stopped at the vineyard. And so it was the very first time for me actually going to a vineyard and like a full, you know, like a legit winery and vineyard site and whatnot. And the winemaker, Daniel Schustein, owner of the winery, he went through the whole barrel room with us. And he would do a quick tasting with us too, and, like, show some of his, you know, Singer Vineyard pinots and everything. And then he walked away, came back with, like, a cuvet that he just put together, you know, like three, four, like, special barrels that he chose. And he's like, try this one. And I was like, oh, my God, this is incredible. And he was like, well, this is, like, you know, our top line. And. And I was just like, this is something that I want to learn. This is, like, so inspiring. It's like, I want to. I want to do this one day. And so I was like, can I work for you? And he's like, sure. So I started working at the winery, and I called my parents, and I was like, hey, I am not coming home anytime soon. I will work at this winery now. I will keep working at the restaurant. I will know how to make wine now. And I'm like, okay, sure. So I kept. I think I called my parents, like, I don't know how many times, like, three, four, five times, telling them that I'm not coming home, that I changed my flight again, ended up staying for an entire year, and got full into, like, the entire wine industry. I was, like, loving it. I was working in the vineyard throughout the day. I would go home, shower quickly, run to the restaurant, and work at night at a restaurant as a waitress and, yeah, still learning about wine and everything. So I was just, like, completely involved. And I was like. I was, like, the happiest was like, it was probably one of the best years of my life, too, Just because I was, you know, just out of school, everyone was, like, happy at home, and I was just completely able to figure out for myself which path I wanna go on in my future. And wine has ever since been, like, the main part of my life. It was kind of cool, I guess. Wow. I was lucky enough to get into the wine thing early on. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I love that story. And I love how it just kind of happened, like you said, like, you didn't ask for it necessarily. It just kind of happened to you, which I feel like there are so many wine stories like that where it's just like, I was gonna do this thing, and then it just kind of happened, and I. Then I fell in love with wine and everything that it does. And it's so hard not to when you. When you get involved with it and when you catch the wine bug, I feel like you're just like, whoa, totally cool. And I. I can't. I can't step away from it. Yeah. I mean, there's so much to it. There's so much to learn. And. Because I also love chemistry, so it's like, just, you know, so much chemistry to it. Like, all the soil signs. And I was like, this is awesome. I want to learn all this, too. And then later on, like, now I have A wine business. So I kind of got back into the business that I actually wanted to study and going to business school. So kind of, you know, we'll work around. Yeah, Yeah, I love it. Just a quick reminder, if you are not on my mailing list yet, what are you waiting for? I would love for you to join. When you do, you'll get a free shopping guide that has 15 of my favorite wines under $15. Head to corkandfizz.com, scroll down to the bottom, and there'll be a little section where you can join the mailing list. I send out a weekly newsletter filled with wine tips, recommendations, special offers, and so much more. Now let's get back to the show. Well, let's talk a little bit about, like, going from that to now having an import business. Yeah, I'm guessing it was not a straight, like, straight to the import business. And, you know, you wanted to be a wine importer. How did it go? Did you ever want to do anything else in wine? Where did you think you would end up? Yeah. You want to tell us a little bit more about that? Yes. So I went back to Germany after my year in New Zealand and started to study winemaking. So I did my best class in Monster's degree in winemaking. And I worked harvest in Germany, too, at this time at the winery in the Moorsl Valley that I now import to. And so it's kind of like, yeah, my family, a family winery. So I work with them still. And it's like, awesome, Like, a really cool relationship. And yeah, so I studied winemaking, and then my dream was to make wine in California. I don't even know where this dream came from, but it was just something that was always stuck in my head. Like, something, you know, in the back of my head, it's like, one day I gotta do this. And so I worked harvest in Germany, but also I had really bad eczema back then too. So I was like, not really. The climate wasn't right for actually, you know, me making wine in Germany. And so I actually switched my career a little bit. I worked for a fine wine import and distributor in Germany. They focused on Italian, Spanish wine. So I actually would in sales before. And I was also trained at the office. So I had, like, a really cool introduction to how import works and, like, how the whole setup works in Germany. And then before I turned 30, I was like, I gotta go to California and make wine. And so that's like when I actually ended up in California and changed my path and yeah. Wanted to Go make wine in California. I was like, one day I have to do this. And I felt like it was time to do it. And so I. Yeah, I quit my job, got rid of my apartment and applied for an internship in California, got the internship position for harvest of 2018, and then moved out to California. The plan was to stay three months. Same thing that, you know, I was planning on doing in New Zealand. Just three months. New Zealand ended up being like a year, and California ended up being, like seven years now. So no one's ever going to believe you anymore. When you're like, I'm just going here for three months. You're like, okay, yeah, sure, Lisa. Sure, sure. She's never coming back. So, yeah, you know, kind of what happen? Yeah. Oh, fun. And then. Okay, so how did you go from winemaking in California to then now starting an import company? So I had a work injury at the winery, so I was not able to make wines. I was kind of forced to take a break. And the break ended up being over a year. And I, at this point, I wasn't sure if I'm able to actually go back into winemaking fully because I had shoulder surgery and, you know, kind of need to be. It's pretty physical job, and I love it. But I was like, okay, what if I can't go back into winemaking? What if I, you know, and I wasn't ready to go back to Germany. And it was also, you know, just around the pandemic time was 2020, and now 2020, my injury and my surgery and stuff, I was like, 2021. I was living close to the ocean. I was like, I don't want to go back to Germany now. Let's stay somewhere here and see what else I could do. And so when I was also coming from the Swedes, I went to quite a few wine shops around and, like, looked at the market and, you know, grocery stores. And I kind of talk to people about, like, different wine buyers in sommeliers in California, how they see German wines. And I was, like, kind of surprised on how little. I mean, not knowledge necessarily, but how many wines is, like, very stereotypical sweet wines from Germany. And especially, you know, German sweet beast thing. I'm like, well, this is interesting because it's like, not what we actually drink in Germany. This is, like, necessarily maybe still make sweet wines over here, but not that much. And, you know, so I was just, like, interesting. And I was also, like, creating something from home. It was like, why? You know, first place, I was, like, sick away from home. I was like, so make me even more homesick. So I was like looking for German Riesling, but it all sweet. And I was like, I gotta change this. And so I talked to my good friends from like do our winemaking studies like in Germany and they were kind of struggling too with a pandemic. Because Germany, we have a lot of wine fests and people come to the wineries and then they go out and like, you know, have a fun time and like buy wines and whatnot. So like the whole industry was struggling a lot too. Like, I mean everywhere but you know, also in Germany obviously. And so I thought it would be fun to, yeah, look into the import business. So I reached out to my friends and I was like, are you interested in like, you know, trying this with me and like going on this journey with me? And they're like, yes, we should totally try that. So yeah. So I went to Germany, met with the small selection of producers that I want to work with. We tasted their wines, we kind of made like a small, you know, first order ready. And yeah, I definitely was a lot of back and forth as well. Like what do you buy? What works in the market, get the licensing ready. So it was a lot of planning and researching, but also very interesting time. I learned a lot about, yeah, the alcohol and beverage industry and laws and requirements and licensing. And I was just like, this is so complicated. Like Germany is like pretty straightforward but over years it's like. And I thought that we are difficult, but right. Yeah, it is, it is something else over here in the U.S. oh totally. Yeah. There's so many rules in different states and different compliances and so yeah, I got really deep into it to see what I could actually do. And so I had this idea of what I wanted my company to look like as an importer. And I also wanted to be able to sell directly to consumers. That was something I want to educate. I want to talk about German wines. You know, I want you to understand why I buy certain wines. And so I, yeah, had this idea of like having, you know, being an on importer, choosing the wines myself and then having an online shop and a wine club and doing all these things. And California is actually the only state that it's possible. And I was like, well, good thing I live in California. Yeah, right, that's a good question. Because I was wondering. Cause I feel like a lot of importers, typically the way that the three tier system works here in the US is that like if you import the wine, then you sell the wine to a Distributor and then the distributor gets it to the restaurants and the wine shops and then that's how we buy it. But I know, yeah, with your company, I can buy directly online the wine. So it sounds like California just has a little loophole in there or something that allows for it. Pretty much, yeah. It's possible if you have an online shop. Yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't have my own store. I couldn't have my online store. But also I'm traveling so much to sell my wines, to distribute my wines. I'm like, I'm fine. Like, I don't know how I would manage another store. No, I love it. Well, I want to talk a little bit about the German wine, but let's go to. I'm going to skip forward to the question on importing just because I think for a lot of people in the wine world, even when you know about wine, importing is still like, it's still a question of like, how does it get here? And so I know there are lots of details so you don't have to go into all the details. But what does it kind of look like, you know, starting from like, okay, I want to get this wine from Germany over to the US and then from that to like, to me buying it and getting it in my house. Can you kind of like talk a little bit about like, what that process is like? I'm so grateful to the sponsors who help make this podcast possible. And Today's sponsor is one I personally love. Wine.com you know, I'm all about exploring new wines, but let's be real, it's not always easy to find unique bottles, especially if you're limited to what's near you. That's why I love shopping on wine.com they have a huge selection wines at every price point, user friendly search features and real wine experts ready to help you find your next favorite bottle. And here's a special deal just for you as a podcast listener. Get free shipping on orders over$150@wine.com corkfizz with promo code Corkfizz. My recommendation, build a mix of 6 to 12 bottles to try some, you know, some you've never heard of. Not sure what to pick. Message me. I'd love to help or take advantage of the live chat wine experts@wine.com. Sure. So if I already work with a winery, it makes it a little bit easier. So let's, you know, pretend that I have a winery that I purchased wines from last year. And so this year I want to reorder the same wine and also a couple of new wines. The first thing I need to do is obviously talk to like taste the wines. Very important. I got to make sure the wine is good. And then I will talk to the winery, talk about the amount that you want to import, like how much I can get. Because not all, not every winery is like a huge production. So there are certain wines that I cannot get, just like whatever I want. And so especially for wine club, I get wines exclusively for the wine club shipments. So this might be something a little bit more unique and something you definitely don't see any other restaurants, retail shops whatsoever. And then the first thing, like the next step would be getting the labels ready. So every product that you import in the United States, especially wine, has to have its own brand label, which states who imports it. There's certain requirements on how to state the alcohol content, how to put the grape variety on there. Like, there's so many small things that you have to know. And when it comes to sparkling wine, it gets even more complicated. So, you know, there's like this whole back and forth sometimes, but I feel like I know how to do it now. And then something else comes up and I was like, okay, great, do it again. And you. A new thing came up. And so that's like one of the main things. Then I send the approved label to the German winery. Then they get them printed, get them ready, label the wines. And then when they tell me that the wine is ready, I will get a quote from the logistics company that I work with. And then they will send me, you know, a pricing for the, let's say pallet or two or the container, whatever I, you know, about to order. And then they will reach out to the winery, get the pickup. The German winery has a couple of things to get ready and then like pick up, work wise. And then hopefully in like a timely manner, the wine will be picked up at the winery. So once the wine gets picked up, it's one thing, but then you also don't know when actually will be shipped. For example, I ordered wines in January and the wine got picked up pretty much right away. It was perfect. And I was like, it's awesome. Just before a terrorist hit and everything, I was like, I get this wines over here. And then I reached out to you logistics company. I shouldn't say name, maybe, maybe I should, I don't know. But they, but they wouldn't, they wouldn't tell me any shipping day. So I kept waiting and waiting. And then I went back to Germany at some Point for a trade show. And I was like, spring, it was March, April. And then, you know, Trump announced the tariffs was like 200% or something. I was like, okay, great. You know, I'm getting quite some wine and I don't even know what the tariffs will look like and whatnot. So I was just like, okay, let's do something else. And, you know, there was nothing I could do. So I was trying to come with like a plan B and whatnot, but there was not really a plan B. I was just like, you know, praying, hoping what you do at this point, getting money aside somewhere. And so the wine got here in the end of May. So there's like not really like a time frame. Yeah. So it took like forever. Sometimes it takes no time. The wine can be here in like no time in America, but sometimes it's like takes forever. And so when I order smaller amounts, the wine will actually consolidated somewhere, usually in Antwerp or Rotterdam, and then gets on a container with other wines too. And then that will be shipped to the east coast, that will get into America or they get the board America in New York. And that's when they will be released. The customs, when they hit customs, when they release customs, they actually charge me, actually, I take it off my bank account right away. A percentage, like a dollar amount per gallon that I import. That's something that just like happens, by the way, when a wine enters the country. There's nothing to do with like tariffs. It's just like a thing that you pay as an importer. That you pay per gallon. Yeah. So it's like, you know, money that they take right away as well. And then the wine will be tracked from the east coast to the West Coast. So it's like. So it takes already like about four to six weeks just for the wine to leave the harbor in Europe to get to my warehouse in California, this time actually getting my own container full of wine, which should be a little bit faster. So the wine will be picked up next week at all the wineries. They all packed the wines, got them ready, and then the wine will be shipped from Antwerp, through the Panama Canal around to California. They will get into America in la, and then it will be tracked to my warehouse, which is like in California as well. So that should be much faster because I'm not going into New York first and then being trucked over and everything. So that's the one thing that, yeah, definitely helps if you have your own container space. But it also means it's, you know, more wine, it's A bigger commitment. And especially right now with like the whole tariff situation, we will see how that will hit. So. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I feel like that's interesting. Big impact, and we've talked about that on the podcast too, of how much the tariffs are just really hitting the more on the American side than they are, you know, the way that they're supposed to be. You know, what the goal of the tariff would be essentially, when really it's just kind of getting the folks like you who are, you know, trying to bring the wine in and trying to sell and actually make some money off of the wine more than, you know, just like how much you have to buy it for and then how much you can actually end up selling it to the consumer. Yeah, that is a challenge. And I think it's a good thing for people to keep in mind when like you see higher prices on some of the German wine versus like when you're in Germany, it's going to be way cheaper. That you know, it's just how it is of like how many different things have to be paid by the time it makes it makes it over here. Which even then I think your, your prices are ridiculously reasonable. I remember purchasing and being like, yes, yes, I want that and that and oh my gosh, I love it. So let's talk a little bit more about German wine. Cause you mentioned this earlier about how, you know, before you started the import company. And I think this is true, you know, across the board of a lot of people when they think of, especially in America, a lot of Americans, when they think of German wine, they think of sweet Riesling, you know, and obviously there's way more than that in Germany. And being from Germany yourself, what do you think of when you think of German wine? Well, Germany to me is one of the best wine producing countries too. Gotta be biased a little bit here on this point, but that's fair. You're allowed to be. Right? Yes, I lived in different places and stuff. Yeah, I've seen different countries, but no. So thinking about German wines, I think about a really diverse portfolio. It comes to, you know, really aromatic, beautiful white wines to incredible red wines as well, and then high end sparkling wines. So to me, Germany has to offer pretty much anything that you want to drink in any occasion. There's something, you know, we produce a wine for anything. There's not just necessarily one thing that we're really good at. And we make these days incredible Chardonnay as well. Piano is the third biggest producer in the world. The taste amazing and the sparkling wine champagne method, for the most part at least. The ones that I import are just like, you know, outstanding too. So I feel like Germany when it comes to wine, to me, it's just like a really colorful, interesting, diverse book. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Let's explore and like, yeah, deep dive into it. Yes, yes. There's way more than just the Riesling and we need to get it over here, which you're doing, thank goodness. What about like the viticulture in Germany? I know on your website you talk a lot about farming sustainably and there's. There's a big focus on being, you know, eco friendly and all of that. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Yeah, I focus, as you just said, totally on sustainably farmed vineyards too. So the wineries I work with, they own their own vineyards for the most part. And you and I met with David Zeecloth before a few months ago. It's like a really fun tasting tale that we did together. And for him especially as well, he focuses on being generative. So the farming has. Is like, fully sustainable. He doesn't use any harsh chemicals when it comes to pesticides and herbicides, treatments of the vines. And that is something that's like, very important. And it's also gaining a lot of attention in Germany. And it's like more and more like a thing not necessarily being organically certified because being certified also costs money and depending on like, for me, especially America, I don't need certification. And for me personally, I don't mind if the winery has certificates or not. I couldn't even put on the label because we have different requirements and laws when it comes to farming and then making organic wines versus America. I think it's all. That's right. Yes. Because, like, organic wine, you could label it organic in Europe, but you might not be able to label it organic in America because there's different restrictions. Yeah. So it's actually the sulfur usage. So in Germany, we can use sulfur. We use less sulfur for organic wines, but you're still allowed to use sulfur when we make the wine. And in America, if you make organic wines, you cannot add any sulfur to the wine. It has to be under 10 parts. And this is so little. So it's like, you know, I'm like adding more sulfur. And when I moved here and looked for organic wines because something that we would drink in Germany too, like, I would look for and when I go like, buy wine, somebody's like, oh, it's organic, it's cool. I buy that one over Here I was just, like, shocked. Quality was ridiculous. I was, like, really bad. But now I know why. Because you just wouldn't use sulfur. And if you're a really good winemaker, you have a really healthy fruit that comes in, you don't really need to use sulfur. So, you know, that's totally cool. Like David Ziegler, he barely uses any sulfur for his winemaking. The other ones using just like, a bare minimum as well. I have a new winery. He's completely Demeter Biomyc certified, same thing. He doesn't use sulfur really for his winemaking. So there's a way to make incredible wines with, like, no sulfur. But if it's just like a grocery store organic wine in America where you can't use sulfur, I don't know how you know, right. You have to put in the extra work to be able to get away with not using the sulfur. I mean, that's used to, you know, keep it stable. And if there's anything going on in the wine and if it didn't start out, great. Yeah, I totally agree. I think that's a problem in the US with, like, the organic winery, because some people just, like, see organic and go, I need it to be organic. And that's all they think about when it's like, it also needs to be quality wine. And, you know, like, quality plus organic would be great. Or like you said, it can be quality plus, maybe not certified organic, but it comes from, you know, all of the grapes were biodynamically farmed or from a regenerative farming situation. And that it's just as. Just as good and just as careful about the environment and taking care of everything. Yeah. And I think the movement, like now, like, you know, looking at organic wines or whatsoever, I think it also pushed many consumers to natural wines, too, because natural wine, you think that must be something better or of, like, lower chemicals. Obviously there are, you know, less chemicals and everything involved here, but it's also like, more clear definition of natural wines, too. And so it's not necessarily natural wine is like, you know, a better wine. But I do like the idea of questioning and getting to know the product more that you're actually consuming in any way. If, you know, if it's like, any food, if it's like, whatever you buy to wear, the makeup you're using, the, you know, products you put on, you know, here and whatnot. So all those things that we interact with and the same thing with, like, drinks and, like, wine too. Like, it's good to ask questions and So I do, like, a natural wine theme or topic, whatever it is, movement, especially for this part. Just like, to, you know, seeing consumers being more interested and, like, more careful and conscious about what they're consuming. I think it's very cool. Yes, I totally agree. And I think because it's. I think it's so fascinating that, like, wine is. I mean, just as being an alcoholic product, like, doesn't have to have the ingredient list on it, you know, or, like, doesn't. Because I think for a lot of people, it's always like, it's just made with grapes, right? And it's like, well, that's the main thing. And for a lot of wines, that's one of the only things. But there's a lot that goes in. Like you said, winemaking is chemistry. There's. There's a lot that can happen. And if you don't start with a good, you know, good grapes and a good product, wineries can kind of mess around with that, and they're. They're allowed to do that. And so I totally agree. I think with the natural wine movement, what I would want to push for that is exactly what you said of, like, asking questions. How was it made? What did the winemaker do? And understanding that, like, you know, I was talking to a winemaker, they're up in the Okanagan in Canada yesterday, and they were talking about, you know, we try our very best not to use pesticides or, you know, we use as low sulfur as we can, but if something happens, we want to be able to respond to it, so we still get a good, great product, you know, And I think that's true for, like, I was visiting a farmer up in Beaujolais, and he said the same thing that, like, it's great to be able to be certified biodynamic, but honestly, you know, they were spraying copper on the. On the vines, and for them, they had to do it so many times, and even then, they still lost so much of their crop because it rained so much. And so I think understanding that, you know, just being completely organic or being completely. This doesn't always mean the wine is better. Understanding why they have to do something is helpful. Oh, totally. And then at the same time, I just said to you, sometimes you need to do something else because it's still your business. If you lose everything, then you lose your business too, eventually. So, yeah, it has to be, like, a healthy balance, too, and we all gotta do our best as well and get a good product and everything, so. Exactly. It's an interesting field. We could go very deep into this one. I know, right? We're like, we're totally nerding out. Let's go back to. You already talked a little bit about kind of how you choose your wines, but it sounds like in terms of choosing the wines that you import, you taste all of them before they come over. Beyond that, how do you find the producers that you, that you like to work with? So my very first producers that I started working with, I met doing my winemaking studies and said it, they happen to be really good friends of mine too, but they're also really good winemakers. I wouldn't just work with you just because you're my friend. I also need to like your wine, obviously. Yeah. So I started working with like those producers that I met doing my winemaking studies. And I obviously know really well how they work and what they've done and like where they came from too, which is like very cool. So you know, when I studied back in Germany, then now retasting all these wines and talking to them and see how far they, you know, evolved and like developed the companies and the businesses and took over their parents production and everything, that was something really intriguing too and like, really interesting to see. And also, you know, it's kind of cool to have the story behind all these wines that I import too, and the connection to the wineries. And you know, I know some of the grandparents too, and I, you know, I know the families and the dads and other kids too. So it's kind of cool. And then right now when I go to Germany, at least, usually go at least once or twice a year. This is like my second time in Germany this year. So what I do is I go to big trade shows. I talk to a bunch of someone years that I meet and I go out for dinner or something. I travel, I talk to my winemakers to see if they have any, you know, if they have like some recommendations, if there's anything that they think I should taste to. And then just go to, yeah, all the wineries and get an idea about what's happening. And then usually I like to taste wineries over a certain period of time. So not just like once and then go and buy them. So I want to taste them at the trade show. Then I go and visit them at the winery. I go to the vineyards with them. I retast the wines. I sometimes even get samples shipped to America to taste them again too. Show them to a few friends, to a few wine buyers and so many years and get a feel for it too sometimes to say like, oh, this is great. I just need. I need to have this. That happens too, because sometimes you have to be fast as well. There's certain wineries that you feel like, this is so cool. If I don't get this now, someone else might, you know, get on this one. And yeah, so that's like one of the processes too. But then it's also very important, like the quality of the wine, obviously, how they farm, but also the connection to the person behind the wine, the family, the winemaker, the philosophy, especially because if you import wine, there's so much that you have to talk about to you with the winery. I feel like about to you. So it's like getting a label ready. You have to talk about paperwork, pricing. You got to make sure that you get long while that you can talk business, but also have a good relationship when it comes to being, you know, in a. Yeah, just like work together too. And I become maybe even like friends and everything too. So I get along with it about everyone I work with and I love it too. And because I have to write tasting notes, I have to talk to them regularly. I want them to support me with like, their social media link me and their content. Sent me photos during harvest so I can reuse them as well for when I want to talk about their wineries. And so it's like a lot of communication between all these wineries and like a constant staying up to date as well. I need harvest updates. You know, I can't. I'm now here doing harvest, which is awesome. And I can't beat every winery at the same time, not to use. I kind of rely on them to give me feedback and information and stuff. So I think like the. Yeah, the personal relationship also plays a big role too. Yeah. And I think that's so special about being able to buy wines directly from you because I know that you have that relationship with the winery and I know that you've gone through and you've tasted all of these. And, you know, it's just this like, confidence that everyone's. I think a lot of people are afraid of trying new wines. Right. So, like, what if I don't like it? And it's like. Well, at least with like buying from like a small importer or a small wine shop, like, you know, they've tasted most of those wines and even if it might not be exactly your cup of tea, you know, it's going to be good. It's going to be good quality because they, you know, they chose to Bring it over here. And so I think that, I think that's really special and also having that relationship like you said. And because I think as an importer, you are representing that winery to everyone here in the US and so it's really important that you understand their ethos behind making the wines and are able to, you know, share that with all of us. And I wanted to come and visit, too. Like a market visit. Yeah, really important too. The winemakers are interested to see how American market looked like and how it works and meeting some of my I wine buyers that I work with over here. So it's like a really cool thing if you get long. Well, and they can come over and travel and like, get to know my, you know, or like my favorite restaurants that I work with or WhatsApp. Yeah. Idea and a feel for the market because then we can again, talk differently about which wines could work and maybe they have something that I feel like this might be a cool one for you to try based on what I just, you know, experienced or whatsoever. And also they understand better why I buy certain wines over other wines. So. Yeah. Oh, I think that's so cool. So interesting. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Cork and Fizz Guide to Wine podcast. If you're in the U.S. be sure to check out Lisa's wine selection and her online store. You can go to twopatswine.com that is T P E T Z wine.com and use a 15% off code especially for you as a listener. Cork fizz. 15. That's cork fizz and the number 151 5. If you love this episode as much as I did, I would so appreciate if you have not yet, just take a quick second, pull your phone out. Or if you're on your computer, there's usually a spot where you can rate it. Either just, you know, the. The star selection, you can just leave a rating. Or if you're on Apple podcasts, you can also do a rating and a review. Let me know what you're loving about the podcast. And I think on Spotify, maybe you can leave a comment. Just say what was something interesting that you found in this episode. In next week's episode, you'll hear part two of my interview with Lisa where we talk about the sparkling wine from Germany you absolutely need to try. Plus, top tips from Lisa on finding the best versions of this sparkling wine. We'll also talk about a unique grape variety that nearly went extinct but is now being used to make some delicious wines. We'll also talk about how Lisa manifested getting her wine on one of, if not the top wine list in the world. And of course, so much more. Thanks again for listening. And if you want to learn more about wine, take come follow me orkandfizz on Instagram. And if you're interested in exploring new wines and joining an incredible community of wine lovers, be sure to sign up for my virtual tasting club, the Cork crew. Head to thecourtcrew.com to learn more and use code winespecial to get your first two months for just $8 a month. Cheer.