Why Hybrid Grapes Matter More Than Ever

Ep 120

What comes to mind when you hear the word “hybrid”? Probably a car you can plug in and not a grape growing on the vine! But in the world of wine, hybrid grapes are sparking some of the most important conversations about sustainability, climate change, and the future of winemaking.

In this episode, I’m diving into what hybrid grapes actually are, how they’re different from crosses, mutations, and clones, and why they’re gaining more attention than ever before. From their fascinating history in early American vineyards to their controversial banning in France, hybrids have a story that’s as complex as the wines they produce.

You’ll learn the benefits of hybrid grapes such as their natural disease resistance, ability to thrive in tough climates, and role in reducing chemical sprays alongside the challenges, including lingering market stigma and misconceptions about their flavor. 

We’ll also look at where these grapes are grown today, from the cold Midwest and Canada to Northern Europe and even Champagne, and why winemakers are experimenting with them in response to shifting climates and consumer curiosity.

Finally, I’ll share examples of hybrid grapes you can actually find and taste such as Vidal Blanc, Marquette, Norton, and Baco Noir, along with what makes them unique in the glass. 

So, if you’ve ever wondered what the future of wine might look like, this episode will show you why hybrid grapes could be leading the way.

Thank you to Wine.com for sponsoring this episode. Go to Wine.com/corkfizz and use code CORKFIZZ for FREE shipping on your order over $150. (Limit one per customer.)

Resources:

Embracing hybrid grapes and creating unique wine with Wisconsin winemaker Erin Rasmussen - https://www.corkandfizz.com/blog/guide-to-wine-podcast-episode-10

Episode Highlights:

• What hybrid grapes are (and how they differ from crosses, mutations, and clones)
• The history of hybrid grapes in the U.S. and Europe
• Benefits of hybrids: disease resistance, climate adaptability, sustainability
• Downsides: market stigma, lower tannins, historical bans
• Where hybrids are grown today, from North America to Northern Europe and Brazil
• How climate change and consumer demand are fueling interest in hybrid grapes
• Examples of notable hybrids: Vidal Blanc, Seyn

Don't Forget to Download my Free Wine Tasting Guide! - https://www.corkandfizz.com/free-wine-tasting-guide

Have you Joined the Cork Crew?!

The Cork Crew Tasting Club is a community of people that enjoy drinking and learning about wine. It's like a book club...but with wine! Each month I’ll select two styles of wine for us to focus on. We’ll then have a virtual tasting party to explore those wines along with a community event to learn from professionals in the wine community.

Click the link below to get a FREE pass to attend a Cork Crew event of your choosing!

https://www.corkandfizz.com/freeclasspass

Connect with me:
Cork and Fizz - https://www.corkandfizz.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/corkandfizz/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/corkandfizz/
Email - hailey@corkandfizz.com

Transcript

0:09

Interested in learning about wine, but not sure where to start. You're in the right place. Welcome to the Cork and Fizz Guide to Wine Podcast. I'm your host, Hayley Bowlman, and I'm so glad you're here. I'm a wine enthusiast turned wine educator and founder of the Seattle based wine tasting business, Corporate Cork and Fizz. It is my goal to build your confidence in wine by making it approachable and lots of fun. You can expect to learn everything from how to describe your favorite wine to what to pair with dinner tonight, and so much more. Whether you're a casual wine sipper or a total cork dork like myself, this podcast is for you. So grab yourself a glass and let's dive in foreign. Welcome back to the Cork and Fizz Guide to Wine. So excited to have you here. This is your first episode. Welcome. So excited to have you listening in. And for those that have been listening for a while, thank you so much. I really, really appreciate you. Today we are exploring hybrid grapes. We're going to talk about what they are, why they matter, and some fascinating wines that you might not know yet or may not have heard of that you want to have on your radar. I actually did an interview way back towards the beginning of this podcast. Like, I think it was literally like maybe episode 10. And it was with a winemaker in Wisconsin, which is my home state, and she was making wine from hybrid grapes. And just in the couple of years since I've recorded that episode, I feel like hybrid grapes have gained so much, so much attention. So I wanted to take a second and talk about them. Let's do it. Okay, let's start off super simple. If you're listening to this and you're like, what the heck do you mean a hybrid grape? Like, we're not talking hybrid. Plug it in. Right? Like a car. What does it mean when you say a hybrid grape? So what is a hybrid grape? A hybrid grape is the offspring of two or more vitus species. Species. Now, when I say that again, a little background might be helpful. Most wines are made with grapes that come from a European species called Vitus vinifera. And so this species creates a style of wine grape or style of grape, I suppose that creates really interesting wines. Not all grapes are part of that species. In America, one of the most common species that you find growing naturally is called Vitus la Brusca. And this is what the Concord grape is a type of, is like what species that belongs to. And this is more of what you'd call a table Grape great for eating, not so great for making wine. And then what happens is, if you cross these two species or any other two species, it's not. It doesn't have to be these two, but these are often the most common. When you cross these, you create a new grape variety and it's considered a hybrid because it's the offspring of two different species. Right. If we just took two Vitus vinifera grapes and created a new grape variety, that would not be a hybrid because it came from the same species we're talking about. Usually it's a Vitus vinifera, so the European grape variety. And it's either mixed with a American species like the Vitus La Brusca, or an Asian species. Obviously, depending on where you are, this is different from a cross or a crossing, like I said, because that would refer to a new varietal made from grapes of the same species. So if we take two Vitus vinifera, that creates a cross. You might also hear the term clone or mutation when referring to grape varieties. If you're already, like, hybrid was enough, I don't want to know anymore. Feel free to skip over the next, like, 60 seconds of what I'm going to say. But if you're like, wait, yeah, I have heard those terms. What is the difference? Keep listening in. I'm going to dork out for a second. So a grape mutation occurs when a variety reacts to changes in its environment, and it usually does that to protect itself against frost, rot, or other hazards. A good example of a grape mutation is actually Pinot Gris or Pinot Grigio and Pinot Blanc. These varieties were actually mutations of Pinot Noir. Makes sense, right? They all start with that Pinot, and then afterwards it's just a color. So Pinot Noir. Noir is black. So it's the darkest grape out of the bunch. And then you have Pinot Gris. Gris means gray, so we're looking at a lighter color. And then Pinot Blanc. Blanc is white, so we're looking at the lightest of them. And so what they actually have is either lower or no levels of the anthocyanins, which is a compound that causes the skin to be a darker color. A mutation becomes a different variety when a handful of its genetic characteristics are no longer identical to the parent vine. Basically saying they're different enough that we're going to call it something else. Just a quick reminder, if you are not on my mailing list yet, what are you waiting for? I would love for you to join. When you do, you'll get a free shopping guide that has 15 of my favorite wines under $15. Head to corkandfizz.com, scroll down to the bottom, and there'll be a little section where you can join the mailing list. I send out a weekly newsletter filled with wine tips, recommendations, special offers, and so much more. Now let's get back to the show. Now, clones, on the other hand, are never considered different grape varieties. A clone is created by grafting an existing grapevine onto a different rootstock. And this is done primarily for creating higher quality fruit or to heighten resistance against disease. This is what happened in Europe after that little aphid, like insect phylloxera went around and like destroyed all their vines. We'll actually talk about this a little bit in like the history of hybrids. But they thought they'd have to create hybrids. But then they soon realized they could just graft the European vines onto the American vines and then you would still just have a different clone in that case and it wouldn't be a new varietal. So they still got their like Chardonnay, Cabernet Sauvignon, all those good European varieties, and didn't have to start mixing with the American varieties. Genetically, if you, even if you graft the vines onto a different root stock, these plants are still identical and they share the same mother vine. So they're considered the same variety. Kind of makes sense hopefully a little bit. So let's just super quick go over that. A hybrid is a new variety that is an offspring of two different species of grape. And a species is different than a varietal. Remember, a species is like super broad varieties when we're getting into it. So a hybrid is a new variety that is the offspring of two different grape species. A cross is a new variety that is created from grapes of the same species. A mutation only requires one, like one variety. You don't need multiple varieties of any species. It just needs one. And it's just where a mutation causes the grape to change the vine to change in some way. And once that change causes a big enough genetic difference, you end up with a new variety. And then clones are not new varieties. They are just slightly different versions of the same variety. Hopefully that makes sense. Let's get back to hybrids because I think we got a little, little sidetracked. How are hybrids created? I've been saying that a hybrid grape variety is the offspring of two or more different grape species, but how exactly does that happen? Right? We're not, we're not talking about the way mommy and daddy make a baby. We're talking about grapes. So in terms of how this can happen, sometimes it can happen as a natural event. And so this is through cross pollination. One grape variety pollinates a different grape varieties, vines, or the. The flowers that they have. But more often than this natural event is the result of intentional effects by botanist and vine breeders. Like, they are purposely trying to create hybrid grapes. And typically they do this because they want to create a hardy plant, which is what you would get when you would, you know, have a more, like, local species. Like, if we're thinking in America, Vitus labrusca way more hardy than Vitus vinifera. It's, like, made to grow in this area. But, you know, you want that hearty plant, but you still want it to create delicious wine. And so that's why you're creating a hybrid. Now, looking at the history of hybrids, I always, you know, me, I'm a history dork when it comes to wine. One of the first major moments in history for hybrid grapes was the phylloxera crisis in Europe. So we talked about this earlier. Phylloxera is that little tiny aphid like insect, came from America, was brought over accidentally to Europe, and it eats the root stock of the European species, the vetus vinifera. And so they were losing vineyards left and right. We were okay here in America because our grape species had learned how to adapt, and so it wouldn't be affected by the phylloxera. However, they hadn't quite figured that out in Europe yet. And so when they were losing their vineyards, the crisis led to breeding and grafting experiments. So essentially, they ended up making clones. Right? We talked about this, where they just grafted the European rootstock onto the European vines, onto the American rootstock. But before they realized that this was the best option, they actually experimented with creating hybrid grapes. And actually, even way before this time, across the pond in the U.S. hybrid grapes already existed, but they were primarily naturally made. Right. Again, people weren't purposely making them. When settlers came to the US they actually found indigenous grapes growing that would be like the Vitus labrusca. But they quickly realized that it did not make good wine. Then they tried growing the vitus vinifera, the European grape varieties, and they always failed because they planted them in the wrong regions. What happened, though, was a man named James Alexander. He was a gardener who worked at the estate of Thomas Penn, the son of William Penn, and he discovered a really strange grapevine in the woods. So this grapevine had actually become a thing because more than half a century earlier in the 1680s, the elder Penn had imported Venus vinifera from Bordeaux, so from Europe, and had attempted to plant a vineyard in what is now Philadelphia. Not surprisingly, that vineyard did not do well, but the vitus vinifera vines left their mark because they spontaneously cross pollinated with the native La Rusca. So this resulted in a grape showing many of the great vitus vinifera qualities, but was hardy enough for harsh winters and humid summers in the region. It created a hybrid grape and because it was found by James Alexander, it was named the Alexander Grape. It quickly spread and other chance hybrids followed, including Bland's Grape, Isabella and Catawba. Okay, we've talked a little bit about why we might want a hybrid grape, but let's go a little bit deeper into the benefits and the downsides. In terms of benefits, hybrid grapes are far more likely to be disease resistant, whether that's from powdery and downy, mildew, phylloxera or botrytis. Unlike vinifera, hybrids resist many common vineyard problems, things like mildew, Botrytis, floxera and a disease called Pierce's disease. And unlike native US grapes, they can actually create wine with complexity and good flavors while resisting this disease. They are also more cold, hardy and early ripening, which is really suitable for shorter seasons and areas that are more climate challenged. They are also better for sustainability reasons. You need less spraying because again, they're pretty disease resistant, they're more eco friendly and they have a lower carbon footprint. Lots of benefits to these hybrid grapes. Of course there are some downsides. Foreign I'm so grateful to the sponsors who help make this podcast possible and Today's sponsor is one I personally love wine.com you know I'm all about exploring new wines, but let's be real. It's not always easy to find unique bottles, especially if you're limited to what's near you. That's why I love shopping on wine.com they have a huge selection wines at every price point, user friendly search features and real wine experts ready to help you find your next favorite bottle. And here's a special deal just for you as a podcast listener. Get free shipping on orders over $150 at wine.com corkfizz with promo code Corkfizz My recommendation? Build a mix of 6 to 12 bottles to try some you know, some you've never heard of. Not sure what to pick? Message me. I'd love to help or take advantage of the live chat. Wine experts@wine.com they are known historically for having this flavor stigma. If you've ever heard someone describe a wine as foxy, that often got attached to hybrid grapes, it's like this super herbaceous, funky. I feel like, in a bad way, foxy could go like barnyard kind of smell, but in a good way. It's kind of just like a unique, like I said, like, herby funk mushroom potting soil situation. They can also have really high acidity and low tannins. So the wines could kind of. They were often lacking in structure. Like, they just didn't quite have the oomph that we were used to with wine. There's also a lot of market bias. I mean, now that we've really worked with hybrid grapes for so long, a lot of the winemakers have been able to get rid of that foxy aroma. They are not overly acidic, and they're not low in tannin. Right. But the problem is that once there's a bias in the market, it is hard to convince people. Right. Wine buyers still remain skeptical. And what's interesting is, if you look into history. Well, history is no help in some places. France actually went so far as to ban hybrid grapes for commercial wines in 1934, and in 1955, the country made it illegal to sell wines made with them. Today, you can sell wine made from hybrid grapes in France, but they have to be sold as Vin de France, which is like the base category for table wines. Many other regions around the world are similar, so there's still kind of a lot of, I don't know, you know, how we feel about hybrid wines made from hybrid grapes. Now let's talk about where they are grown and where we're seeing a little bit more interest and excitement for hybrid grapes. I myself am most familiar with hybrid grapes in North America. As I mentioned before, I'm originally from Wisconsin, and I've definitely seen hybrid grapes there. I mean, just thinking about Wisconsin, super cold winter, so not a lot of vitus vinifera grapes can survive that. You're also going to see hybrid grapes in places like Ontario, Canada. You'll also see them in New York, Pennsylvania, and Virginia. Another area that you'll see hybrids outside of North America is actually in Northern Europe. Places like the Netherlands, England, Belgium, Poland, and even Ireland. Now, most of the places I've listed so far primarily grow hybrid grapes. Not entirely, but a lot of the regions, you just. You only see hybrids because they're so cold, the vinifera can't grow. The thing is, hybrids are also really useful in marginal climates where you have vinifera, but maybe they struggle and you have really bad years, you know, where you had a really bad frost come in and you have really fickle weather. So sometimes the vinifera can work and sometimes they can't. So for example, there's a hybrid called Voltis. This is a mildew resistant hybrid that was created by a collaboration between France's INRAE and Germany's Julius Kuhn Institut. It recently became an approved variety in. You're not going to believe this. Champagne. Yeah. There is now an approved hybrid grape allowed in Champagne. I think they're still trying to get it approved. There's like one more level with like the European Union, but apparently at like the Champagne level it is approved. It's kind of crazy. Britain is another example. British wine growers are faced with frost damage and so they've embraced a lot of frost resistant varieties like Rondo and Saval Blanc. Then if you're going like hundreds of miles south. So we're going in a different direction now. Brazil's vineyards are dominated by hybrids. They've got the Labrusca vinifera. So that's like the American European hybrid Isabella. And they like this one because the risk of fungal growth resulting from the region's tropical climate makes it hard to grow the vinifera only. So you get these hybrids, they're not as susceptible to the fungal growth and they grow a lot better. Okay, before we talk about some specific hybrid grapes and what they taste like, I want to talk about why they're popular now. And I think it's going to be pretty obvious. One of the main reasons is climate change. Climate change has added to the urgency of hybrid use, you know, thanks to exaggerated weather extremes across the wine growing world at both ends of the temperature scale. Right. There have been a lot more frost, a lot more cold snaps that are destroying grapevines, and there have been a lot of places with high temperature and increased rainfall, which causes ideal conditions for fungal disease and insect borne disease. There's also a big push for sustainability in the vineyard. Hybrids can allow winemakers to grow more sustainably. Right. It decreases the use of fungicides and insecticides. The other key reason that I think we're seeing them become more popular now is that there is a change in the consumer market. Consumers are embracing experimentation. They're embracing natural and sustainable wines. And so if these hybrids can be sustainable, that is something that consumers are looking for. And so they don't care if they've never heard of the grapes. They don't care that it's not a European grape variety. They want to try it because it's different and it was made in a sustainable way. Okay, now let's talk about some examples and what they taste like. This is obviously not a comprehensive list. There are plenty of hybrid grapes out there and many, many more being created as we speak or as you listen to this. But I thought I'd list some of my favorites. Many of these I've tried before, and the ones that I haven't tried, I made sure to find as much as I could on the grape and the information on it. So starting with white grapes, one of the first ones is Vidal Blanc. This was created by Jean Louis Vidal. It was actually created for the production of Cognac back in the 1930s, though you won't really see it in France anymore. It's made its way to North America. It's often planted in northern states like New York, Michigan and Rhode island, and can be also found in Canada. It is often used in the production of sweet wines called ice wine, which is made by harvesting the grapes after they've frozen on the vine. The grape can also be used to make dry white wines. Okay, moving on to one of my personal favorites, Seval Blanc. This was created by horticulturist called Bertie Sevres and his father in law, Victor Viard, who created Seval Blanc, which as the name suggests, is a green skinned grape that makes a white wine. It's widely used in England where it's blended with other grapes to make sparkling wine. But you can also find it in the US in colder climates. Where I've tried Saval Blanc before was actually in Wisconsin. Some compare Saval Blanc to a Chardonnay since it has a similar flavor profile and relatively high acidity. And honestly, I would agree with that. And similarly, like a Chardonnay, Saval Blanc takes well to malolactic fermentation. So that's where you change the malic acid in the wine, which is like a green apple, and you change it to a lactic acid, which is the acid you find in dairy products. So it rounds out the flavors and creates more balanced acidity. Again, a really nice thing when you have a hybrid grape known for high acidity. Kind of balance it out, round it out, and it turns into this really interesting, delicious wine. Another popular white hybrid is called Cayuga. Your best bet to find a wine made from Cayuga is the Finger Lakes of New York. One of its parents is actually C' est Vlanque. The versatile Grape means it can be used in a wide array of white wines, anything from still dry wines to sparkling numbers to even sweet wines. The last white wine I'm going to mention is called lacrosse, and this was produced and patented by a Wisconsin grape breeder, Elmer Swenson, around 1970. It is also an offspring of Saint Vil Blanc. Elmer Swenson was also the breeder behind St. Croix, St. Pepin, Esprit, Edelweiss, Swenson Red and Kay Gray, among many others. So this man created many hybrid grapes, but lacrosse is probably the most. I think it's the most popular. I've seen St. Pepin as well, but a lot of the other ones are kind of new to me, mostly grown in North America. And the wines that are produced from lacrosse tend to be pretty fruity, similar to Riesling, or they can be used as a base for blended wines. Now moving on to red. And I will say this, admittedly, I think white hybrid grapes are better. Like, or I should see wines made from white hybrid grapes are a little bit better. I think right now they're still working towards creating, you know, really good hybrid grapes for making red wine. And I think again, that problem comes from the lower tannins. And we need those tannins. Even if you don't like a lot of tannin, you need some of them to really give your wine some structure. I definitely think they're getting places, but for me personally, I tend to reach for the whites over the reds. I. But like I said, they're really starting to put some things together. So one of the most popular that I've seen around is called Marquette. This was bred at the University of Minnesota, and it's actually the grandson of Pinot Noir. This grape can grow especially well in colder temperatures. Makes sense. They bred it in Minnesota where it is really, really cold. It creates a medium bodied wine with notes of red and black cherry and sometimes a hint of spice. It can also be aged in oak for some amount of time and you can get notes like tobacco and leather when you do that. One of the oldest American native grapes is called Norton. After the Europeans invaded the Americas, they wanted to make sure they had plenty of wine to drink, which made them start to scramble to search for an American wine grape. Norton, which was cultivated in Virginia, was the result. Wines made with Norton grapes can be medium or full bodied. They typically display notes of red fruit like strawberries, red cherries and raspberries. You'll find wine growers planting Norton in Texas, Missouri, Kansas and Virginia. Of course, the Last red grape I'm going to mention is called Baco Noir. This was created all the way back in 1894 by Francois Baco. He was trying to create a phylloxera resistant plant that could revive Europe's pandemic struck vineyards. Since American vines were resistant to the disease, Baco thought that breeding a French American hybrid could solve their phylloxera problem. It was known for a time in France, but now it's found a home primarily in North America. It's grown most prominently in New York State and Ontario, Canada, but it can be found throughout the continent. It's somewhat similar to Pinot Noir with a bright acidity and a light body. Alright, that's pretty much everything I have on hybrid grapes. So just to recap here, hybrid grapes are a cross between two different grapes species. Some of the most common are typically a cross between Vitus Vinifera, which is a European grape species crossed with an American species called Vitus la Brusca. These hybrid grapes are more relevant than ever in a changing wine landscape, right due to climate change, a push for sustainability and an interest in trying new things. So be sure to go out, try them, explore and tell people all about them. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Cork and Fizz Guide to Wine podcast. If you loved it as much as I did, would so appreciate. Just take a quick second rate it and leave a review. I read every review and it really, really makes my day. When I see a new one on there. In next week's episode we're gonna go back to the basics. I'll be talking about how wine is made now. Caveat. I'm no winemaker, so I'm not an expert, but I've learned a lot about the winemaking process over the years so I'm excited to share that with you. Thanks again for listening and if you want to learn more about wine, come follow me at Cork and Fizz on Instagram. Cheers.